More vituperous ribaldry than a stick might be shaken towards.

Friday, June 10, 2005

Systems of Belief

I'm reading a collection of 3 works by Francis Schaeffer called Trilogy, which starts with The God who is There. J.I. Packer, author of the popular Knowing God and listed among Time's top 25 "Most influential Evangelicals", wrote the introduction and lauds the genius of Schaeffer's philosophizing, specifically his focus on reasoning ones way to faith. He has the following to say in summarizing Schaeffer's philosophy:

"So the first task of evangelism, in the modern West or anywhere else, is to persuade the other person that he ought to embrace the Christian view of reality. And the first step in doing this would be to convince him of the noviability of all other views, incuding whatever form of non-Christianity is implicit in his own thinking."

I can agree with the first sentence - it's practically a definition of evangelism - but not the second. It helps illustrate an issue I think the Christianity has been struggling with for a while now - a collision of modernism with post-modernism - and so I think it's worth talking about.

Before I get into this, I know I'm treading into rough water. I'm no philosophy expert by any means, so please forgive me if I overstep my intellect here.

It seems to me that Packer assumes two things. First, he assumes that everyone approachs the world with a system of beliefs - it's popular to call this a "world view," at least in the Christian circles I was raised in. Second, he assumes that if one holds a system of beliefs that is shown to be inconsistent, one will naturally favor a more consistent framework. And that's where I have to disagree.

I think the modern Church's failure in the post-modern world revolves around it's refusal to accept the fact that people don't like systems anymore. The Englightenment is over, and people are now convinced that the world is too complex a place to fit neatly into organized boxes. Christians have known that people don't like systems for years, but rather than trying to re-interpret their message and philosophy in light of that fact, they resort to complaining about the prevalence of "relativism" in our world and wishing for a time long gone when we could all sit around and rationally argue about whose world view was better than whose. It's just not going to work anymore, and sitting around whining about it isn't going to help.

"Reasoning" with people, having a "discussion" takes on a different meaning in our post-modern world. Rather than logically describing and defending our positions, it seems more important to me that we focus our discussions on trying to understand other people - where they've come from, what's lead them to believe what they do about life and God, and where they think their lives are going. It's connecting with people and providing a sense of community - fighting nihilism and fragmentation - that minds are met in our post-modern world. Pointing out the logistical inconsistencies in someone elses framework seems to do little more than cause most people to ignore us.

Reason isn't dead, and logic isn't done for. The post-modern age hasn't done away with a reliance on reason - only superceded it with the desire for communication and friendship. I don't know if I have much more to say on this, but here's one closing thought: there's a good reason that the song doesn't go, "And they'll know we are Christians by our well-reasoned systematic theologies."

7 Comments:

At 11:59 AM, Blogger JMC said...

Really nice work. I think that is a great post and I totally agree. I do have one question, though, and this is not for redhurt specifically, nor is it one that I have any opinion/insight into: to what extent can we modify a faith that was inaugurated and documented by those who held a systemic understanding of the world (and the Faith) in their own right as well as inherited a systematic paradigm from Judaism?

 
At 12:26 PM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

Great post, redhurt. Most instructive for how we are to act is Christ himself. He was down with everyone from prostitutes to Pharisees, and I don't remember him presenting his worldview systematically. He's never told me exactly how to deal with stem-cell research, for example.

My only quibble with you is minor. You wrote (and bolded): "people don't like systems anymore." This means that either people who are alive now used to like systems and don't anymore, or people from the past liked systems, and our generation doesn't. I don't think this is true, if only because most people in the past were too busy farming and dying in childbirth to consider anything systematically. Certainly, Newton, Leibniz, Kant and Russell weren't like Derrida, Rorty, or Hauerwas; but those names represent the cutting edge of brilliance, the second group elites in our time and the first unparalleled in theirs. So the shift seems to me to be taking place among the intellectuals, and we're only now getting a lot of people into the debate.

j. morgan: I have a crude analogy for you. I don't see why we'd treat faith any differently than the Constitution, or family traditions. We need to recognize that we can never completely transcend our own times; but within them we can attempt to connect with the past even as we use new norms to do so. I know this issue troubles you, but are you troubled by your inability to get in the heads of the founding fathers?

 
At 12:27 PM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

The last line of my previous comment was meant as an honest question (to which I'd like an answer) and not a taunt, just in case it sounded like one.

=)

 
At 1:04 PM, Blogger RJ said...

Chuck: I do feel like people in the past liked systems more than we do now. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I have the impression that people like Kant were famous in their age not just amongst intellectuals interested in categorical imperatives, but among the farmers who couldn't really understand what he was saying but knew it was profound. I don't take it as far as Schaeffer would - he says that people now won't even agree that if A is true then not-A can't be true - but I do believe that during the enlightenment, being able to logically defend your ideas was much more popular amongst people in general than it is today. I could be wrong on this - set me straight.

 
At 1:14 PM, Blogger RJ said...

JMorgan: Good question. I think we should first answer the question of the extent to which the faith was inaugurated by people with systematic beliefs. I'd need to know 1.) how many different systems were involved (because it seems to me there were many early Christians) and 2.) what those systems were.

Next, I think we'd have to look at the extent to which their systems of belief modified their faith. For instance, I've heard it's clear that Paul thought Jesus would return in his life time. That fact alone has little bearing on most of his letters, so I think we're free to largely ignore it.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that I'm not advocating "modifying the faith." I'm talking about modifying the focus of how faith is presented - not any basis of the faith itself. It would seem to me that Christianity was birthed by small communities of people meeting together and meeting with those who'd known or seen Jesus first hand and listening to their stories. While Christianity has been profoundly influenced by Greek thinking from the beginning, it's my understanding that not until later years when the Christian Church became an institution and sanctioned by the state that tradition was turned into ritual and systematic doctrine formed to justify it all. So I would say that it is the enlightment/modernist/"logically ans systematicaly justify everything" camp of Christianity who has modified the faith - perhaps you see it differently?

 
At 1:50 PM, Blogger Greg said...

"They'll know we are Christians by our love" is actually adapted from Jesus' quote in John 13:34-35 '"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."' So its more than a nice sentiment in a song, its the way Jesus Himself said we should show the world that we are His followers.
I totally agree with your idea about systems and reasoning. Very few people today care if their way of life is not rational. They probably won't ever agree with you that it's not, but even if they do it will most likely not inspire any kind of faith in God. Love, as Jesus said, is the only thing we really have to offer people that's appealing to them. Especially in America today, everyone is always trying to change themselves and people lead more isolated lives than ever. Having a group of people that love you as you are (irrational belifs included) and wants to live their lives along side you is amazing. However, I don't think that the church, in general, does a great job at providing that at this point. Within the church we're still a bunch of Americans doing our own thing looking for a way we can make ourselves acceptable to ourselves. And that is why the church in America sucks at getting people involved or 'evangelizing' -- we have nothing to offer the world besides what they already have. If we live by love then maybe we'll be appealing to people, and evangelism won't seem like such a burden or impossible task. The idea of Christianity, in one sense, is to answer the central question of meaning in people's lives. The problem with modern evangelism is that we're answering questions that people aren't asking.

 
At 2:10 PM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

Good comment, redhurt. You've asked an empirical question: how did the semi-educated men of the 1780s feel about Kant and his categorical sweetness? Well, I do know a little bit about how the general public in Germany and Prussia reacted to Kant's works. Mostly, he was attacked for being anti-religious; his book "Religion within the limits of reason alone" did not go over well with the clerics and many of the peasants of the time. Among intellectual circles he caused a huge stir, and his work was taken as a starting point by German idealists like Schelling, Hegel and Fichte. Rorty reads Hegel as historicizing /relativizing Kant, thus bristling at his systemizing; I can't make heads or tails of Hegel, so I can neither confirm nor deny this hypothesis. I definitely did not mean to indicate that I wouldn't agree with something like "systemizing used to be the deal, and now it's not;" Hume and Nietzsche, the anti-systematizers, had trouble getting chairmanships at universities, whereas now the US loves your Rortys and Fishes and their relativist ilk. =) I just questioned your bringing the average man on the street into the equation, because I don't have a good feeling about how we would have wanted to discuss his worldview back in the day. I liked standingout's observation that "Very few people today care if their way of life is not rational;" I would assert that that holds for people of the past as well. In the salons and universities of the past, systems were in; here in the Russell/Godel continuum, they're not. You're right about that.

 

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