More vituperous ribaldry than a stick might be shaken towards.

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

post 231: hard(er) questions

At church tonight, someone said we need to ask hard questions about God, and about life. Usually this implies that someone will ask why we don't trust God more, or that maybe God can do anything, and that "expanding our view of God" is about learning to trust that God does "outrageous" sorts of things on a regular basis. And maybe this is true, and maybe this is a good thing to learn about God.

But conversely, I think it's important to ask the opposite question about God, and it's something that's always bothered me because I don't hear it often asked. Tonight, someone mentioned a person they knew who'd been diagnosed with cancer. He and several other of the persons friends began praying, and roughly a week later the person was healed. A miracle, and supposedly we should all trust God because of this.

So here's my question, the one that bugs me: even if God healed this guy, why does that mean I should trust him? There are tons of people with cancer. I can't imagine that most, maybe even just many, of them, when faced with the true reality of their imminent death, don't cry out to God, whether they call him "God" or not, and beg to be healed miraculously. When we really believe we've got nothing to lose, we'll try anything. And long before that, most people have some shred of faith buried in their past, and it's enough to conquer their pride and cause them to pray for healing.

And many of these people - most, if we believe that terminal illnesses really are "terminal" - still die.

So the question is, even if God does heal people sometimes, why should I trust him? It's quite clear and apparent that he doesn't heal people all of the time - putting my trust in him will not guarantee healing. It seems like I could take this same sign to prove that God is not necessarily kind, but whimsical and fickle - not trustworthy at all, but the sort of being who dispenses blessings at an order I can't trust or rely on.

I know this question is nothing new - that this "problem of pain" has been debated and explained and struggled with a million times over the years, maybe more, with many different answers, some satisfactory, some not, but it's not the sort of thing I hear good answers to often, or the sort of thing I hear talked about much in church. And I think that's dishonest. We as Christians are all about praising God for the blessings and crediting him with the good things that happen to us, but when things go wrong, it must be our fault. With so many things going wrong all of the time, it seems like this should be a big deal, and something that we talk about more than just every once in a while.

I think we do this because we desperately WANT to rely on God. We WANT to think of him as a fixed point; unchanging, reliable, trust-worthy. Some people, including me, want to run around thinking about life as a secure fixed place with an orderly God on top who dispenses good things to the "spiritual" people who help others, and lets the rest of us mess ourselves up. It's nice - it fits, clicks, makes sense, seems to be the way things should be to us.

But that's not the way things really are; at least not in the way I've seen and experienced them. Maybe you live in a world where God will catch you if you jump off of a cliff. I don't. God will let me fall. He'll probably let me wreck my car, cut off my fingers using a saw, die of cancer, whatever. And it has absolutely nothing to do with how spiritual I am, or how much I pray. God is, along with everything else, not the sort of being who acts in ways I can ever predict. To begin a sentence with "God will" is usually to open the door for error - he very well might not.

Now I'm not saying that this makes God bad, or that his unpredictability implies that he doesn't love us. I'm just saying the opposite isn't true either - a few miracles don't prove that God is the sort of being we should put our trust in, and to represent it this way is disingenuous. I think it's really important to struggle and wrestle with the topic of God's lack of response - God's silence, refusal to answer our prayers, often "in the way we expect", but sometimes at all.

I don't have a good answer. I think one of the reasons God leaves it this way is to force us to struggle over it - to make us uncomfortable. Because it's through that sort of frustration that he often chooses to work, though sometimes maybe he'd rather speak in obvious blazing visions of glory. I think he does it to me to be elusive, to prove that I can't keep him in any of the nice neat categories or systems I want to build for him. In ways I don't have time or space to go into here, he reveals himself as good, ultimately and undeniably, then refuses to be tested on that point, and refuses to agree to constrain his behavior to seem good on my terms. He makes it quite obvious that he will act in ways or allow things to occur that seem quite evil, and that there's nothing I can do about this. I must simply trust in the goodness to the extent that I've seen it and love him, come what may, or reject his faith and stay safely within the bounds of things and people whose actions I can categorize and anticipate.

I know that sounds a little stupid. "Just trust" is not a good answer. I completely agree. That's why it's a hard question.

So, that's the hard question I thought of in response to the question posed tonight. I think it's important, and it's certainly been the focus of what I've spent my time thinking about God for the past 5 years or so. What do you think?

9 Comments:

At 7:18 AM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

Well.

I don't know. We've hashed out this hash before--I don't think it's a proper use of language for you to say that God "let" you fall after you drove your car off the cliff, just as you wouldn't accuse me of letting you do it, either. "But charlespeirce," you say. "God's omnipotent--you're not. He COULD stop that car." Yeah, but I'm out for language like that too. It makes God into the deistic God.

I guess my theological response would be to shift the discussion over to Christ and away from God. Christ made it clear that when we suffer, he suffers with us, and that whatever we do to the lowest people on earth, we do to him. He also said that out of all this pain and uncertainty he's eventually going to bring life. So, that's good. For me, it's more comforting to know that Christ is suffering with people with cancer than it is for someone to tell me that God works for the good of those who love him, you know?

 
At 10:13 AM, Blogger RJ said...

It's more than the fact that God's omnipotent - it's that God sometimes DOES "catch the car," so to speak. The cancer case is better - if we say that God sometimes does miraculously heal people of cancer, then we're automatically placing the discussion in a realm where God has this type of agency, and then I think it's a valid thing to be upset about. If you Charlespeirce were somehow able to save people from these situations, but only sometimes did, and then asked me to trust that you'd take care of me, I think I'd be correct in feeling frustrated in that case as well, right?

My point is just that we're often tempted to point to this or that occurance and say, see, this means that God is trustworthy. I'm not saying that he isn't - only that these situations don't prove it, because they set us up for systems like the one you and I are both disagreeing with for different reasons. You say it's the wrong comparison to make, and I say it's a correct comparison, but it says dishonest things about God.

 
At 10:22 AM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

Okay.

What about Jesus?

 
At 11:07 AM, Blogger RJ said...

I agree with you about Jesus. If you're saying we should spend more time talking about Jesus, and less time talking about God in the abstract sense, then I agree with you completely.

 
At 11:39 AM, Blogger GMack said...

I guess another way to look at it would be that you are defining all these things as "bad". For example, cancer doesn't always have to be a bad thing. Yes we are going to die, but sometimes we are made to learn things through hardness that we wouldn't have learned otherwise. And if the goal of human existence is to glorify God and enjoy him forever, then some hardships to make us learn this only seem fair. I'm not going to say that getting cancer is optimal, but sometimes in the broader sense, it can be used for good.

 
At 3:48 PM, Blogger Greg said...

I tend not to believe that God performs miracles per se that often. Like your cancer healing story, I really don't believe that it happened that way. I find it much more likely that the cancer diagnosis was wrong the first time than that God miraculously healed that person. I know its very Diest of me, and I wish I didn't feel that way, but I do. Its something that I've been thinking about a lot these days as well.

I don't believe that God causes bad things to happen because He is going to make good things happen out of them. I think that God steps into damned situations and redeems them by making some good come of them. Looking out from within the system these two things look really similar, but they're a lot different in cause even though the effect may be the same. But in the same way I can't really believe that God causes most of the good things to happen either -- it leads to ridiculous theology when I do. For example, I'm hoping that I'll get a good job offer soon. So lets say that I do. Should I say that God made that happen? If so, then did the hiring manager not really have a choice in the matter? God made them hire me? Conversely, if I don't get such an offer should I say that God caused me not to because its for the best some how? Again, did the hiring manager not hire me because God made him, rather than because he didn't think I'd be the best for the job? It makes all of life and human experience a joke if God causes these things to happen when we think we're doing them.

So, I have no idea how God works in the world. I have no idea what God "allows" or causes. I have no idea if God ever does these miracles people claim these days. And I have no idea if anyone is ever really "led by God" to do something, or if that's just an excuse they use for doing what they think is best when that's not a good enough explanation.

 
At 7:45 AM, Blogger JMC said...

Wow, amazing post. I don’t have anything profound to say because, as you have already said, hard questions don’t have easy (or any) answers. I just think it is important to remember that we, as Christians, are “already/not yet” people.

The Cross is both the full reckoning of all accounts and a promissory note; the end of history and evil and suffering and death already and not yet the end history and evil and suffering and death. The Church is a testament to both the perfection of all creation that will (and has already) happened and to the mercy of a God who provides safe haven in a world that he does not presently (and does always) rule. I consider it a great error to focus on one without remembering the other.

To the degree with which God dramatically demonstrates the sensible restoration of creation, he is both testifying to Jesus’ words on the Cross – “It is finished” – and to the words of the Church in the Nicene Creed – “He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there shall be no end.” However, when God DOES NOT dramatically demonstrate the sensible restoriation of creation, he is doing the same thing!

In all things, God is faithful, it is just that the situation of the Church is one in which simple platitudes and easy answers cannot fully account for the ways in which that is true. In no sense – either the miraculous healing of terminal cancer or the slow, painful death by the same disease – is the course of things not testifying to God’s faithfullness, the work of the Cross, and the hope of glory.

 
At 10:06 AM, Blogger CharlesPeirce said...

Eloquently put, all, and thanks, j. morgan, for returning to the cross.

Hans, thoughts?

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger Hans-Georg Gadamer said...

Redness - excellent post. I think you are right on and belief should not be based on any amount of evidences (or "miracles") weighed up on one side because there will always be some (probably more) on the other side of the equation.

There is something reminiscent in what you say to that beautiful expression in Isaiah 45 where God describes himself as "the hidden God." I think that is true in the world and he does "hide" himself in a sense, while opening himself to those who seek him, regardless of the outcome in particular places.

As far as Charles goes, I appreciate the Christ reference but I am not as Christomonic or Moltmannian as you on this stuff. I don't think the cross "solves" anything by itself but only within the matrix and dynamic relation of a bunch of Christian doctrines (eschatology, resurrection, creation, incarnation, decree, etc.). But you know I am more prone to stress the transcendent pole of God than his imminent pole. I think Jesus is important but only within the context of thr Trinity and the outworking of a Divine Drama of sorts.

So I tread lightly on the suffering question because I would generally want to affirm a purposeful suffering, even in the face of Ivan K's questions. Otherwise I think Christ becomes an exemplar instead of a saviour and his suffering has no necessary component within the divine decree and plan. Divine decree, I know, I know. That's my language though. I also think it is not deistic to talk about God acting in the world, no matter how tricky that working out of that action ends up being. I admit to not having anything near a full solution to that problem.

Good reference to "realized eschatology" J. Morgs, I think that is fine.

In short I quite agree with Redness in the lack of evidences for trustworthiness. One of my favourite passages is Dan. 3 with the three fellas (Sheds, Meshs, and Abind.) where they say that God can save them from the fire. "But if he doesn't, know this King, we will not bow down to your false idols." Wow. That's what I call faith and a trust in a gracious Lord who fully makes himself known in the person of Jesus who dies on the cross and promises to come in glory to burn this place and redeem creation.

 

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